[COMPLETE] London Labour Volume III -ans

Solo or group recordings that are finished and fully available for listeners
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GillH
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Post by GillH » April 19th, 2021, 6:56 am

Section 84 (22:10)
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/londonlabour3_84_mayhew_128kb.mp3

London Vagrants Part 7: Estimate of Numbers and Cost of Vagrants
from just after the table on p395 to p398

and
Section 85 (22:27)
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/londonlabour3_85_mayhew_128kb.mp3

London Vagrants Part 8: Routes of the Vagrants
pages 399 - 402

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » April 20th, 2021, 1:33 pm

Edited section 82 PL ok.

It's difficult to see how to change the mind-set that leads to criminality. Sometimes it comes naturally, with age, as it seems to have done with some of Mayhew's interviewees ... but by then, they're unable to earn a living wage.

I subscribe to a charity that provides teaching in yoga and non-denominational meditation to staff and prisoners in prison. It does seem to do some good, judging by some of the letters they receive, but I've occasionally wondered what the effect would be if all prisoners were taught in this way, as part of their rehabilitation.

Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

GillH
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Post by GillH » April 21st, 2021, 12:18 am

At a school I recently-ish taught at, they used "Conscious Discipline". I'm not saying it's 100% effective at all times, but the percentage must be pretty high. It makes the children think of their choices and the consequences of them (good and bad, in both cases), and goes along with instilling a feeling of community in the school but also in each class. If they feel they have a say in what goes on, that their opinion is respected, and if they have certain responsibilities to the group (with positive and negative consequences depending on how they carry out those responsibilities), they can really bind together into a mini-community, listening to and supporting one another, seeking to understand when things go wrong etc. and how to avoid that in future.

People need people, much as some might try to deny it at times. The pandemic has shown that dramatically with huge increases in the number of clinically depressed as a result of lockdown and the isolation it brings. We need to feel accepted as part of a group as we are. If that doesn't happen early on within a family, we become attracted to whatever group seems to offer it (in many cases here, the street urchins at first) or we close the door to society, shrink into ourselves, and it's all about 'me and survival'; there is a 'disconnect', and can't see the wrong in taking whatever we can for ourselves because we can't empathise with the people we take things from in their loss.

What I'm not very succinctly saying is: in my opinion, criminals need to be treated as people who have made a mistake for whatever reason. They should be helped to explore why they made the choice(s) they did, what other choices were open to them, the consequences of each choice and how they can make better choices in future. (Obviously it's a long process and not as simple as that!) Meanwhile they need to have some ownership of their present circumstances and to set personal short-term goals, and to have the opportunity of being part of some sort of community and building positive relationships.

With a lot of Mayhew's people, the system is entirely against them. They will forever be marked men and can't put the past behind them to start again. If they can't get work and can't/won't beg, with no non-criminal relatives or friends to help or support them, there aren't a lot of options open to them, with the best will in the world.

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » April 24th, 2021, 12:11 pm

It's this business of taking consequences into consideration when making choices which needs to be built in at a very deep level. It's very close to the Golden Rule.

But you're right about Mayhew's interviewees; they're damned by their past actions and it's near-impossible to get out of the rut, no matter how much they are changed.

Section 83 PL okay; word perfect ... and hypnotic.

Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

GillH
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Post by GillH » April 25th, 2021, 4:11 am

Thanks, Peter.
At least there aren't as many tables in this volume compared with Volume 2.

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » April 30th, 2021, 12:40 am

Mayhew does seem to have an innocent ignorance of the inaccuracies in his estimates. When you've been told that around 5% of vagrants are "truly deserving", there's no point in quoting costs to the nearest halfpenny!

Section 84 PL okay.

Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

GillH
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Post by GillH » April 30th, 2021, 4:29 am

Thanks.
And I've stopped checking his arithmetic. (It's not often correct!)

GillH
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Post by GillH » April 30th, 2021, 12:06 pm

Section 86 (26:51)
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/londonlabour3_86_mayhew_128kb.mp3

London Vagrants Part 9, pages 402 - 406
from "I shall now conclude this account of the numbers, cost, and character of the country and the metropolis, with the narratives of two female tramps."

(Section 90 starts at page 406, London Vagrants’ Asylums for the Houseless.)

So much seems to depend on their clothes: they don't feel they can attend church in rags; they can't bring themselves to go back to their parents in rags, etc.

"Yes, sir, I liked prison very well, because I had such bad clothes; and was glad to be out of the way."

I liked this quote from a female tramp:
"I can’t tell what’s come to the country of late. It’s got very bad and scaly, there’s no hospitality going on. I’ve been two years at the business, and I’ve seen it grow worse and worse, meaner and meaner, every day before my very eyes. I don’t know, I’m sure, what poor trampers will do if it gets any worse."

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » May 1st, 2021, 1:28 pm

Section 85.

Just one little error, which changes the meaning a bit:

19.40 Such of them as make up their minds to return to their country ... Read as "the country" (so my mind heard that as "the countryside")

Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » May 2nd, 2021, 12:30 am

Section 86 PL ok.

The interviews, specially the second one, give a good picture of how easy it is to make the shift in the human pattern of thinking, of dealing with life. We accept ours as normal and reasonable, but it's possible to have a very different outlook and feel that that's the most sensible way to behave. Odd creatures, us humans. I think empathy, the Golden Rule (you wouldn't like it done to you), is the only valid basis of living within society.

"I don’t know, I’m sure, what poor trampers will do if it gets any worse."

Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

GillH
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Post by GillH » May 2nd, 2021, 2:35 pm

Thanks, Peter.
Edited Section 85 (still 22:37)

https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/londonlabour3_85_mayhew_128kb.mp3

Absolutely: "love your neighbour as you love yourself."

GillH
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Post by GillH » May 2nd, 2021, 2:42 pm

And Section 87 (22:16)
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/londonlabour3_87_mayhew_128kb.mp3

London Vagrants’ Asylums for the Houseless, pages 406 - 410

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » May 2nd, 2021, 11:23 pm

Edited section 85 PL okay.

EDIT: Section 87 PL okay; word-perfect.
Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

GillH
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Post by GillH » May 3rd, 2021, 5:23 am

Brilliant. Thanks again, Peter.

Section 88 (34:02)
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/londonlabour3_88_mayhew_128kb.mp3

Peter Why
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Post by Peter Why » May 5th, 2021, 1:00 am

Gill, I may have made a mistake (and I have to leave home in 2 minutes, so can't double-check), but I think your section 88 is a reading of a wrong block of text.


I have a note that Section 88 should start with "In order to arrive at a correct estimate as to the number of the really ..."

Where your version starts "The only refuge for the houseless now open"
To: "This man appeared to me to be a very decent character. "

EDIT:

Last lines of the recording of section 87 are:

".... those who have encountered the cold air all // the day, and perhaps all the night before." (at the top of col 1, p 410 in the PDF that I have.)

So section 88 should start "In order to arrive at a correct estimate as to // the number of the really poor and houseless who ..."

***
Your recorded section 88 runs between

"The only refuge for the houseless now open // which is really a home for the homeless, is ..." in col 2, p 407 of my PDF

and ... "This man appeared to me to be a very // decent character." Near the bottom of col 2, p 412 of the PDF


Peter
"I think, therefore I am, I think." Solomon Cohen, in Terry Pratchett's Dodger

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