Pronunciation help: all languages

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Kazbek
Posts: 2499
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Post by Kazbek » June 1st, 2020, 4:43 pm

I recently came across an "Accents Table" on the LV wiki, where readers could identify their own accents. It seems to belong to the halcyon days before spammers forced the community to restrict access to the wiki, and I doubt this method would scale to the LV of our times, with over 10K readers. We also have a couple of volumes of "Celebration of Dialects and Accents" in the catalog, where readers demonstrated their accents on the same short text. One can always check what accent is used in a recording before listening to the whole thing, or if the reader adopts different accents for different characters. The idea of reading in the same accent as the author is a bit forced for the texts we read here, because accents and general manner of speaking have changed significantly over the last 100 years, in some languages more than others, and generally became homogenized by mass media. I enjoy hearing old recordings of famous authors speaking in part because of how strange their voices usually sound to our ear.

Michael

Darvinia
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Location: Alberta, Canada

Post by Darvinia » June 2nd, 2020, 10:22 am

I grew up in both England and Canada. When I'm in England now I'm told I have a Canadian accent. When I'm in Canada I'm asked if I'm from England. :hmm: It stems from expectation and perception.

Also, there is a variety of both Canadian and English accents. I have no idea how to identify mine.
Bev

I yam what I yam, and that's all what I yam - Popeye, the sailor man
Everybody's got a mountain to climb - Dickey Betts
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice - Neil Peart
12696

Penumbra
Posts: 1220
Joined: May 10th, 2016, 6:16 pm

Post by Penumbra » June 2nd, 2020, 12:05 pm

My sister grew up in Dallas Tx and consequently had the accent you'd expect from Dallas. She married a Brit and moved to London, and she purposely changed her accent to sound more "British" so her kids would hear something closer to normal for them. She says none of her British friends thinks she is British, but they also don't believe she is from Dallas. The most common country-of-origin guesses are Canada and South Africa.
Tom Penn

dvandervis
Posts: 25
Joined: February 24th, 2020, 1:06 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

Post by dvandervis » June 10th, 2020, 6:55 pm

Some help with Latin? I've got a name

AEbutius Liberalis

Ay-BUTT-ee-us

or Ay-BOOT-ee-us? Or am I messing it up both ways?
Diana V.

Constructive criticism is always welcome. Do I need to slow down? How's my enunciation? Did I stumble, or pause too long? Please let me know!

Kazbek
Posts: 2499
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Post by Kazbek » June 10th, 2020, 7:31 pm

dvandervis wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 6:55 pm
Some help with Latin? I've got a name

AEbutius Liberalis

Ay-BUTT-ee-us

or Ay-BOOT-ee-us? Or am I messing it up both ways?
If the name appears in a classical context (I'm guessing this has to do with Seneca), I would use the classical pronunciation: eye-BOOT-ee-us.

Michael

AnaNaumoska
Posts: 207
Joined: June 17th, 2020, 3:57 am
Location: Struga, North Macedonia

Post by AnaNaumoska » June 21st, 2020, 1:20 pm

Hello everyone, I stuck with a particular phrase in latin, that I have no idea how to pronounce.
""Nbn tamquam amicus videt sed tamquam imperator".

Any help is welcome (and necessary) :)

Have a great evening,
Ana :mrgreen:


salus populi suprema lex

Kazbek
Posts: 2499
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Post by Kazbek » June 21st, 2020, 5:39 pm

AnaNaumoska wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 1:20 pm
Hello everyone, I stuck with a particular phrase in latin, that I have no idea how to pronounce.
""Nbn tamquam amicus videt sed tamquam imperator".

Any help is welcome (and necessary) :)

Have a great evening,
Hi, Ana. "Nbn" is a typo for "non". Can I transliterate the phrase in Cyrillic? It's easier than using English syllables.

нон тАмквам амИкус вИдет сед тАмквам имперАтор

Michael
P.S. I googled this phrase and see that it appears in a footnote that justifies an unorthodox translation of Seneca. The more common reading goes "quia me non tamquam amicum videt, sed tamquam imperatorem", with accusative case endings, and meaning "because he sees me not as [he sees] a friend, but as [he does] an emperor", while this translator reads both words in the nominative case. More information than you asked for. :mrgreen:

AnaNaumoska
Posts: 207
Joined: June 17th, 2020, 3:57 am
Location: Struga, North Macedonia

Post by AnaNaumoska » June 21st, 2020, 11:07 pm

Kazbek wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 5:39 pm
AnaNaumoska wrote:
June 21st, 2020, 1:20 pm
Hello everyone, I stuck with a particular phrase in latin, that I have no idea how to pronounce.
""Nbn tamquam amicus videt sed tamquam imperator".

Any help is welcome (and necessary) :)

Have a great evening,
Hi, Ana. "Nbn" is a typo for "non". Can I transliterate the phrase in Cyrillic? It's easier than using English syllables.

нон тАмквам амИкус вИдет сед тАмквам имперАтор

Michael
P.S. I googled this phrase and see that it appears in a footnote that justifies an unorthodox translation of Seneca. The more common reading goes "quia me non tamquam amicum videt, sed tamquam imperatorem", with accusative case endings, and meaning "because he sees me not as [he sees] a friend, but as [he does] an emperor", while this translator reads both words in the nominative case. More information than you asked for. :mrgreen:

Awesomee! Thanks a lot Michael!
And yes, it's in Seneca's On Benefits.
Ana :mrgreen:


salus populi suprema lex

maxgal
Posts: 948
Joined: June 8th, 2019, 10:24 am

Post by maxgal » August 9th, 2020, 11:44 am

Hello all,

Anyone know about Old English??

I'm doing a solo recording of The Christian Mythology (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=79950).

I'm preparing the text of Chapter 1, and have come across some quoted lines in "Joseph's Jealousy" (from Hone's "Ancient Mysteries Described"), a play written in Old English, where Joseph confronts Mary (future mother of Jesus) about how she happened to become pregnant, and she tells the tale of immaculate conception:


Jos.
Say me, Mary, this childys fadyr who is?
I pry the telle me, and that anon?

Mry.
The Fadyr of hevyn, & se, it is,
Other fadyr hath he non.

Jos.
Goddys childe! thou lyist, in fay!
God dede nevyr rape so with may.
But yit I say, Mary whoos childe is this?

Mry.
Goddys and your, I sey, I wys.

Jos.
Ya, ya! all olde men, to me take tent,
& weddyth no wyff, in no kynnys wyse.
Alas! Alas! my name is shent;
All men may me now dyspyse,
& seyn olde cokwold.
...
An A’gel! alas, alas! fy for schame!
Ye syn now, in that ye to say;
To puttyn an A’ngel in so gret blame.
Alas, alas! let be do way;
It was s’n boy began this game, [13]
That closhyd was clene and gay,
& ye geve hym now an A’ngel name.



My MC Rapunzelina had the following suggestions:
"You can read the text as written, with confidence, probably guessing the pronunciation of most of the words.
or
You can post the text in the "Need help" section of the forum, in case someone who is knowledgeable in Middle English is available to offer a recording of it for you to imitate. If so, they can use my uploader folder (Rapunzelina)"


Well, I'd like to think that the pronunciation isn't extremely difficult, and that I can guess at it as I go along.

But I'd rather look for some authoritative help first.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks very much!

...LJB
Louise
"every little breeze..."

Kitty
LibriVox Admin Team
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Joined: March 28th, 2014, 5:57 am

Post by Kitty » August 9th, 2020, 11:48 am

maxgal wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Anyone know about Old English??
I studied medieval English (Old and Middle English) at university. And the text you quote is definitely Middle English (not Old English)

I can make you a soundfile if you wish, although my Middle English is a bit rusty too. Would need a few days though, for when do you need it ?

Sonia

maxgal
Posts: 948
Joined: June 8th, 2019, 10:24 am

Post by maxgal » August 9th, 2020, 11:56 am

Kitty wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 11:48 am
maxgal wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Anyone know about Old English??
I studied medieval English (Old and Middle English) at university. And the text you quote is definitely Middle English (not Old English)

I can make you a soundfile if you wish, although my Middle English is a bit rusty too. Would need a few days though, for when do you need it ?

Sonia
Hey Sonia,
Sorry, I know nothing about Old English or Middle English or the difference between them. :oops:
Otherwise... I am in no hurry at all!
Whenever you can do it is marvelous.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
...LJB
Louise
"every little breeze..."

Kitty
LibriVox Admin Team
Posts: 27778
Joined: March 28th, 2014, 5:57 am

Post by Kitty » August 9th, 2020, 12:03 pm

maxgal wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 11:56 am
Otherwise... I am in no hurry at all!
Whenever you can do it is marvelous.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
ok I think I can record on Tuesday, if that is fine by you, I'll send you the soundfile then. And Middle English is not as tricky as Old English, so don't worry, you can surely emulate my pronunciation. The difference is often in the vowels that get pronounced a bit differently than today. And some endings can have the French nasals. But as with Latin or other dead languages, there are no native speakers around anymore that could complain :lol:

Sonia

maxgal
Posts: 948
Joined: June 8th, 2019, 10:24 am

Post by maxgal » August 9th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Kitty wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 12:03 pm
maxgal wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 11:56 am
Otherwise... I am in no hurry at all!
Whenever you can do it is marvelous.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
ok I think I can record on Tuesday, if that is fine by you, I'll send you the soundfile then. And Middle English is not as tricky as Old English, so don't worry, you can surely emulate my pronunciation. The difference is often in the vowels that get pronounced a bit differently than today. And some endings can have the French nasals. But as with Latin or other dead languages, there are no native speakers around anymore that could complain :lol:

Sonia
That's right! :lol:
Thanks very much...LJB
Louise
"every little breeze..."

Kitty
LibriVox Admin Team
Posts: 27778
Joined: March 28th, 2014, 5:57 am

Post by Kitty » August 11th, 2020, 1:34 am

ok here is the middle English file. https://librivox.org/uploads/kitty/middle_english_maxgal.mp3
poor Joseph is always ranting in these mystery plays that he is a cuckold :lol:

So you can hear, the vowels are most often spoken like the Germanic pronunciation, the shift to modern English pronunciation was not that early. The r can be a bit rolled if you can do it. Final syllables with -e are mostly spoken as well. I hope I didn't speak too fast, but I also wanted to convey a bit the dramatic expressiveness. Then it's easier to understand what is happening here.

Let me know if anything was hard to understand or follow, then I can try to make it slower. If you wish you can upload your version and I can give you feedback :) But as I said before...I'm sure no one will complain: if you stick to a few basic rules already, it will sound quite genuine. ;)

Sonia

maxgal
Posts: 948
Joined: June 8th, 2019, 10:24 am

Post by maxgal » August 11th, 2020, 4:56 am

Kitty wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:34 am
ok here is the middle English file. https://librivox.org/uploads/kitty/middle_english_maxgal.mp3
poor Joseph is always ranting in these mystery plays that he is a cuckold :lol:

So you can hear, the vowels are most often spoken like the Germanic pronunciation, the shift to modern English pronunciation was not that early. The r can be a bit rolled if you can do it. Final syllables with -e are mostly spoken as well. I hope I didn't speak too fast, but I also wanted to convey a bit the dramatic expressiveness. Then it's easier to understand what is happening here.

Let me know if anything was hard to understand or follow, then I can try to make it slower. If you wish you can upload your version and I can give you feedback :) But as I said before...I'm sure no one will complain: if you stick to a few basic rules already, it will sound quite genuine. ;)

Sonia
O thank you!
I’ll check it out.
... LJB
Louise
"every little breeze..."

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