Pronunciation help: all languages

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Mike001
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Post by Mike001 » April 23rd, 2013, 5:52 am

Mike001 wrote:
chocoholic wrote:Norwich in the USA (as in US towns, or the terrier) is pronounced Nor-witch.
Currently. The New Englanders used to say Norridge -- unsurprisingly. I believe the local pronunciation got lost only a few decades ago, with lots of newcomers moving into the area and, as it were, spelling the name out rather than asking the locals how it was said.

The same process has happened with many English placenames. For example, Daventry was pronounced "Daintree" by the locals, but you'd more commonly hear it as a "spelling pronunciation" nowadays.

Interestingly, "wich" means "a place with salt". So you know that anywhere that has that in the name is a place at which salt was mined or got from seawater. (At least in England you would.)

I think the "w" probably got lost in the pronunciation of most of these "wich" names, because many people used to have trouble saying W (c.f. the Wellers in Pickwick.) You used to get dialectal pronunciations like 'ooman (and even 'atch). And, of course, in standard English the "w" has dropped out of words like sword, where the combination with another letter (here the "s") makes it even harder to say.
Beaufort, SC is pronounced differently than Beaufort, NC; Concord, NC is pronounced differently than Concord, Mass. It is a minefield. :)
Yes, usage isn't always easy to predict, and it's not static.

tovarisch
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Post by tovarisch » April 23rd, 2013, 6:22 am

Mike001 wrote:Interestingly, "wich" means "a place with salt". So you know that anywhere that has that in the name is a place at which salt was mined or settled from seawater. (At least in England you would.)
Is that so? :hmm: Curious... Some alternative theories can be found here and more here... Not arguing, mind you. Just pointing out... :wink:
tovarisch
  • reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
    to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please

annise
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Post by annise » April 24th, 2013, 3:06 am

Getting back to "ancient Greek" , our 2 Greek readers use modern pronunciation - that is the way they are taught . They find the attempts at guessing what the Athenians etc sounded like 2 1/2 centuries ago slightly bewildering. Just as I find most "correct" pronunciation " somewhat amusing. Are all the English and American regional accents to be considered incorrect then ? Not to mention the Scots and the Irish and South Africans and Kiwis and the Indians and all others who consider themselves to be native speakers. How should Melbourne be said - the way the people who live there say it , or the way most other people think it should be said . And so with every place name and a large number of words .

Anne (pronounced Ann but don't ask me why - just say it :D )

carolb
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Post by carolb » April 24th, 2013, 5:40 am

annise wrote: Anne (pronounced Ann but don't ask me why - just say it :D )
:clap:

Carol

Lynnet
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Post by Lynnet » April 24th, 2013, 5:58 am

annise wrote: Just as I find most "correct" pronunciation " somewhat amusing. Are all the English and American regional accents to be considered incorrect then ? Not to mention the Scots and the Irish and South Africans and Kiwis and the Indians and all others who consider themselves to be native speakers. How should Melbourne be said - the way the people who live there say it , or the way most other people think it should be said . And so with every place name and a large number of words .
Of course, 30 years ago, the only 'correct' way was "Oxford English" or "BBC English" (which is confusing, as the BBC isn't based in Oxford...) and many actors with regional accents had to learn to speak differently.
And talking of Australian place names, how do you say Canberra? To me - and obviously many others on TV and radio - it seems to be "CAN-berra", but at school I had a geography teacher who would 'correct us' to say "Can-BEAR-a". And wasn't Melbourne named after Lord Melbourne, pronounced Melb'n?
It really is a minefield. I wish I had never asked :oops:
Lynne
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carolb
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Post by carolb » April 24th, 2013, 6:13 am

This is completely off the top of my head, but maybe the BBC bods were educated at Oxford University? :?

Carol

catrose
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Post by catrose » April 24th, 2013, 12:14 pm

And it's the Quuen's English and she neither works for the BBC or lives in Oxford :lol:
Cat
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jillebean
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Post by jillebean » May 6th, 2013, 11:50 am

I have a novel in mind for my next solo project, however, I have some hesitation about starting it because it contains a few "accents" like this one:

"Whist, dear, an' I'll tell ye; but ye mustn't let on a worrud, but take it as a matter of coorse. I was brushing up the harruth when yer aunt come into the settin'-room."

I am terrible at reading accents and know me reading it the way it's written would ruin the recording. Should I just resign myself to being unable to record the book? Is it ever acceptable to "translate" the accent into "regular" English without the pronunciation? I hate to change the author's vision of the book too much, is changing "worrud" to "word" too much change?

The characters with accents are not major characters so for most of the book this wouldn't be an issue. Any other suggestions as to how I could handle the accents? What have other people done? Thanks in advance for your advice!

Jill

carolb
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Post by carolb » May 6th, 2013, 12:12 pm

RuthieG wrote:If you want to hear real British people (not satisfied with us lot here, then?) this is an excellent site with MP3s.
People from all over the world, not just British. http://www.dialectsarchive.com/ Ruth
Ruth posted this link recently, which may help.

It looks like Irish or Scottish to me :? so wherever it is from you could google 'hear ...ish accent.'
Hearing someone speaking in a particular accent can help.

Carol

RuthieG
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Post by RuthieG » May 6th, 2013, 1:30 pm

Just roll your r's good and proper and you'll get away with it ;). It's supposed to be Scottish, though the author is American.

Ruth
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WoollyBee
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Post by WoollyBee » August 28th, 2013, 4:49 am

Hi everyone! I really need some help with the following passage:
Agatha Webb[/url], [url=http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5162]Chapter 35 (Section 38) wrote: Hjelp! Hjelp! Frun håller på alb döda sig. Hon har en knif. Hjelp!
 Hjelp!
I can record this, I just need some help with pronunciation. Thank you so much! :)

Petra
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Post by Petra » August 28th, 2013, 10:56 pm

WoollyBee wrote:Hi everyone! I really need some help with the following passage:
Agatha Webb[/url], [url=http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5162]Chapter 35 (Section 38) wrote: Hjelp! Hjelp! Frun håller på alb döda sig. Hon har en knif. Hjelp!
 Hjelp!
I can record this, I just need some help with pronunciation. Thank you so much! :)
I'm pretty sure this is Swedish. I speak it with a strong regional accent so I'll just try to explain some of the sounds to you; a recording of me would probably be much harder to imitate. ;)

"Hjelp!" is a lot like "yelp". The h is silent.
"Frun" has a sort of oo vowel, and the r should be audible.
"håller" like ... "holler" maybe?
"på" has a vowel a bit like in "or".
"alb" is probably a scanno--it should be "att", pronounced like "at".
"döda" is with the ö similar to the vowel in "bird", and this is where the emphasis goes for that sentence.
"sig" like "say".
"Hon" has a oo like in moo? Both h and n are pronounced.
"har" is like "are" with a h at the start.
"en" would be just like you say the letter n in the alphabet.
"knif" is like "kneev", and be careful to pronounce the kn combo. It's not kuhneef, it's k-n-eev. (My British friend was once very amused when I accidentally said "knuckle" with the kn. She just cannot say it, so don't worry if it seems hard. ;) )

I hope this helps! And good luck :D

WoollyBee
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Post by WoollyBee » August 29th, 2013, 5:31 am

Petra wrote:
WoollyBee wrote:Hi everyone! I really need some help with the following passage:
Agatha Webb[/url], [url=http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5162]Chapter 35 (Section 38) wrote: Hjelp! Hjelp! Frun håller på alb döda sig. Hon har en knif. Hjelp!
 Hjelp!
I can record this, I just need some help with pronunciation. Thank you so much! :)
I'm pretty sure this is Swedish. I speak it with a strong regional accent so I'll just try to explain some of the sounds to you; a recording of me would probably be much harder to imitate. ;)

"Hjelp!" is a lot like "yelp". The h is silent.
"Frun" has a sort of oo vowel, and the r should be audible.
"håller" like ... "holler" maybe?
"på" has a vowel a bit like in "or".
"alb" is probably a scanno--it should be "att", pronounced like "at".
"döda" is with the ö similar to the vowel in "bird", and this is where the emphasis goes for that sentence.
"sig" like "say".
"Hon" has a oo like in moo? Both h and n are pronounced.
"har" is like "are" with a h at the start.
"en" would be just like you say the letter n in the alphabet.
"knif" is like "kneev", and be careful to pronounce the kn combo. It's not kuhneef, it's k-n-eev. (My British friend was once very amused when I accidentally said "knuckle" with the kn. She just cannot say it, so don't worry if it seems hard. ;) )

I hope this helps! And good luck :D
Wow, thanks, Petra! That is so helpful! I just recorded the phrase and I think I've got it. Thanks so much, again! :D

Petra
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Post by Petra » August 30th, 2013, 12:40 am

You're very welcome! :D It's not often I get the chance to help out with Swedish.

echobase77
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Post by echobase77 » September 2nd, 2013, 6:39 pm

Hello friends, does anyone have any knowledge regarding pronunciation of Hebrew words? I've recorded a section from Calvin's Commentary on I Corinthians where he throws in a couple words in Hebrew but at present have skipped over them, show in context below.

"For תם, which is always rendered in the Septuagint by τελειος means complete "

"If we understand אלהים (God) to be in the accusative, the relative who must be supplied."

If anyone can write them out phonetically, I can read/record/insert them. Thanks!
"Only fear the Lord and serve Him faithfully with all your heart. For consider what great things He has done for you." I Samuel 12:24
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